Comments on: Should We “Legislate Morality”?- The Appropriate Role of Christians in Democracy http://toddongod.com/2008/07/11/should-we-legislate-morality-the-appropriate-role-of-christians-in-democracy/ Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:24:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Keith Walters http://toddongod.com/2008/07/11/should-we-legislate-morality-the-appropriate-role-of-christians-in-democracy/#comment-147 Keith Walters Sat, 09 Aug 2008 04:45:22 +0000 http://forthetimethatispastsuffices.wordpress.com/?p=194#comment-147 Awesome, Lutzer is a solid writer, I will try to see if I can get a copy. Awesome, Lutzer is a solid writer, I will try to see if I can get a copy.

]]> By: Todd Burus http://toddongod.com/2008/07/11/should-we-legislate-morality-the-appropriate-role-of-christians-in-democracy/#comment-141 Todd Burus Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:44:33 +0000 http://forthetimethatispastsuffices.wordpress.com/?p=194#comment-141 Keith, Thanks for checking out that sermon and sharing what you think. As far as the issue you brought up, the way I understand him addressing this idea of bringing "the moral law to bear on legislative and judicial action" is by appealing to the common grace which we have been alotted. Granted, he mentions that he believes prohibiting same-sex marriage is a moral law which is common to all and revealed in nature, a conclusion which I am not totally sure on (though of course I oppose gay marriage), but I think the idea is solid. I recently read a book which dealt with this also called "Is God on America's Side?" It is by Erwin Lutzer and it is fantastic. He presents things in a very sober and balanced manner, probably the best handling I've ever seen of these questions. One thing I really liked about it was that he included the fact that no matter what we think of the candidates we still need to choose the best available from the options instead of letting our voice be silenced because we don't have Jesus running for President (my words, not his). I thought it was so well written that I've asked our pastor for permission to lead a book study through it this fall. You should check it out. The book is not available on the open market yet but they have released an early printing for churches to use this fall leading up to the election. It is being published by Moody Publishing and you can probably obtain a single copy through Family Christian Bookstore if nothing else. Just to let you know, I am to Jeremiah 29 right now so I will probably be posting my take on what is written after I work through it. Take it easy bud, I'll talk to you soon. Keith,
Thanks for checking out that sermon and sharing what you think.

As far as the issue you brought up, the way I understand him addressing this idea of bringing “the moral law to bear on legislative and judicial action” is by appealing to the common grace which we have been alotted. Granted, he mentions that he believes prohibiting same-sex marriage is a moral law which is common to all and revealed in nature, a conclusion which I am not totally sure on (though of course I oppose gay marriage), but I think the idea is solid.

I recently read a book which dealt with this also called “Is God on America’s Side?” It is by Erwin Lutzer and it is fantastic. He presents things in a very sober and balanced manner, probably the best handling I’ve ever seen of these questions. One thing I really liked about it was that he included the fact that no matter what we think of the candidates we still need to choose the best available from the options instead of letting our voice be silenced because we don’t have Jesus running for President (my words, not his). I thought it was so well written that I’ve asked our pastor for permission to lead a book study through it this fall. You should check it out. The book is not available on the open market yet but they have released an early printing for churches to use this fall leading up to the election. It is being published by Moody Publishing and you can probably obtain a single copy through Family Christian Bookstore if nothing else.

Just to let you know, I am to Jeremiah 29 right now so I will probably be posting my take on what is written after I work through it. Take it easy bud, I’ll talk to you soon.

]]> By: Keith Walters http://toddongod.com/2008/07/11/should-we-legislate-morality-the-appropriate-role-of-christians-in-democracy/#comment-140 Keith Walters Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:09:05 +0000 http://forthetimethatispastsuffices.wordpress.com/?p=194#comment-140 Toddicus, So I finally got around to listening to the Piper sermon. I really enjoyed it and appreciate his emphasis on the importance of hermeneutics for society at large, which I think few people recognize. This is another example of how no one can hold to Postmodernism as a consistent worldview because we all demand consistency somewhere whether that is from our accountant or our boss, as in Piper's example. I also appreciate how he explains that there are numerous examples of "legislating morality" that we do not view as such because all parties involved agree on that particular issue of morality. I also appreciate his emphasis on preaching, not force, as the means to conversion. This leads in to what I appreciate the most about his sermon, namely that society must be pluralistic and that the Constitution is designed to uphold and unite a pluralistic society. On the flipside I still struggle with his emphasis on how we bring the moral law to bear on legislative and judicial action. In this particular area I would lean away from legislating morality and towards a pure preaching model. Earlier in his sermon he notes how we are not to use the sword to promote our perspective. I would argue that if legislating biblical morality against a society that stands wholly opposed to such morality would be a use of the sword; one that is similar to Constantinianism and the various persecutions by the church via the state. Rather than legislating this morality we must preach the gospel and allow it to transform men and the culture they create. Below is a link to my blog which includes several links describing a paradigm with which I am more apt to agree. http://keithwalters.org/2008/06/13/2008-06-13-the-brief/ Toddicus,
So I finally got around to listening to the Piper sermon. I really enjoyed it and appreciate his emphasis on the importance of hermeneutics for society at large, which I think few people recognize. This is another example of how no one can hold to Postmodernism as a consistent worldview because we all demand consistency somewhere whether that is from our accountant or our boss, as in Piper’s example. I also appreciate how he explains that there are numerous examples of “legislating morality” that we do not view as such because all parties involved agree on that particular issue of morality. I also appreciate his emphasis on preaching, not force, as the means to conversion. This leads in to what I appreciate the most about his sermon, namely that society must be pluralistic and that the Constitution is designed to uphold and unite a pluralistic society.

On the flipside I still struggle with his emphasis on how we bring the moral law to bear on legislative and judicial action. In this particular area I would lean away from legislating morality and towards a pure preaching model. Earlier in his sermon he notes how we are not to use the sword to promote our perspective. I would argue that if legislating biblical morality against a society that stands wholly opposed to such morality would be a use of the sword; one that is similar to Constantinianism and the various persecutions by the church via the state. Rather than legislating this morality we must preach the gospel and allow it to transform men and the culture they create. Below is a link to my blog which includes several links describing a paradigm with which I am more apt to agree.

http://keithwalters.org/2008/06/13/2008-06-13-the-brief/

]]> By: Keith Walters http://toddongod.com/2008/07/11/should-we-legislate-morality-the-appropriate-role-of-christians-in-democracy/#comment-132 Keith Walters Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:09:02 +0000 http://forthetimethatispastsuffices.wordpress.com/?p=194#comment-132 I was actually pretty pumped that you were going through Jeremiah because I wanted to see how you handled the first half of ch29. Many would see it is political terms; I do not. I have posted a lot on this issue and just recently I linked to 4 posts by MacArthur which are phenomenal. I will give the Piper sermon a listen and post my thoughts. I was actually pretty pumped that you were going through Jeremiah because I wanted to see how you handled the first half of ch29. Many would see it is political terms; I do not. I have posted a lot on this issue and just recently I linked to 4 posts by MacArthur which are phenomenal. I will give the Piper sermon a listen and post my thoughts.

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