Comments on: A Gift or a Work?- A Question on the Genesis of a Believer’s Faith http://toddongod.com/2008/07/25/a-gift-or-a-work-a-question-on-the-genesis-of-a-believers-faith/ Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:24:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Doulos Christou http://toddongod.com/2008/07/25/a-gift-or-a-work-a-question-on-the-genesis-of-a-believers-faith/#comment-138 Doulos Christou Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:41:28 +0000 http://forthetimethatispastsuffices.wordpress.com/?p=235#comment-138 In answer to the question you're posing: without a doubt the matter of salvation is entirely in Christ's hands. Augustinians/Calvinists would aver that it is grace within, infused by God as a result of their election before the Fall, that gives them the faith necessary to believe. Therefore, the faith that they exercise is not their own but God's moving through them. Obviously, not a meritorious work. The Arminian is often said to believe in a works salvation because he or she exercises their faith of their own volition, ignited by prevenient grace of the Spirit and the power of God's word. ergazomai and ergon have to be carefully translated in the context from which they are derived because the biblical authors used them in different ways. Your Pauline quotes for example, carry the freight of the Law and the human effort to follow the law as a way to salvation. John uses the word group to denote the activity of Christ while the synoptic authors often use it in reference to general activity. Peace brother In answer to the question you’re posing: without a doubt the matter of salvation is entirely in Christ’s hands. Augustinians/Calvinists would aver that it is grace within, infused by God as a result of their election before the Fall, that gives them the faith necessary to believe. Therefore, the faith that they exercise is not their own but God’s moving through them. Obviously, not a meritorious work. The Arminian is often said to believe in a works salvation because he or she exercises their faith of their own volition, ignited by prevenient grace of the Spirit and the power of God’s word.

ergazomai and ergon have to be carefully translated in the context from which they are derived because the biblical authors used them in different ways. Your Pauline quotes for example, carry the freight of the Law and the human effort to follow the law as a way to salvation. John uses the word group to denote the activity of Christ while the synoptic authors often use it in reference to general activity.

Peace brother

]]> By: Todd Burus http://toddongod.com/2008/07/25/a-gift-or-a-work-a-question-on-the-genesis-of-a-believers-faith/#comment-137 Todd Burus Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:55:38 +0000 http://forthetimethatispastsuffices.wordpress.com/?p=235#comment-137 Would you be willing to clarify what you are questionning more? The dilemma I am meaning to set up is simply this, is it up to us to make Christ's work effectual or does Christ procure this in us himself? And since the basis for effecting our salvation comes to the matter of faith, then this question expands to the question of if our faith is up to us (which I think, by the meaning of the word 'ergon' would be a work) or if it is something that Christ earns and bestows upon us, which would make it a gift? Please show me what I am missing so that I can attempt to address your concern more fully. Thanks. Would you be willing to clarify what you are questionning more? The dilemma I am meaning to set up is simply this, is it up to us to make Christ’s work effectual or does Christ procure this in us himself? And since the basis for effecting our salvation comes to the matter of faith, then this question expands to the question of if our faith is up to us (which I think, by the meaning of the word ‘ergon’ would be a work) or if it is something that Christ earns and bestows upon us, which would make it a gift?

Please show me what I am missing so that I can attempt to address your concern more fully. Thanks.

]]> By: Doulos Christou http://toddongod.com/2008/07/25/a-gift-or-a-work-a-question-on-the-genesis-of-a-believers-faith/#comment-136 Doulos Christou Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:53:58 +0000 http://forthetimethatispastsuffices.wordpress.com/?p=235#comment-136 In order to properly frame this discussion, you need to begin by correcting the false dilemma. You posit "Is it a work of ours that we must choose to exercise or is it a gift from God procured by Christ’s death on the Cross and irresistible imparted to all of the elect?" You're offering a false proposition in your counter position, that receiving the gift of salvation is a work. You were clear on which side of that argument you would place your bet, but what support can you offer to make the "works" argument more than a straw man? In order to properly frame this discussion, you need to begin by correcting the false dilemma. You posit “Is it a work of ours that we must choose to exercise or is it a gift from God procured by Christ’s death on the Cross and irresistible imparted to all of the elect?” You’re offering a false proposition in your counter position, that receiving the gift of salvation is a work. You were clear on which side of that argument you would place your bet, but what support can you offer to make the “works” argument more than a straw man?

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