Comments on: What We Believe- Article X, Last Things http://toddongod.com/2009/03/25/what-we-believe-article-x-last-things/ Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:24:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Todd Burus http://toddongod.com/2009/03/25/what-we-believe-article-x-last-things/#comment-793 Todd Burus Thu, 26 Mar 2009 04:49:50 +0000 http://toddongod.com/?p=1330#comment-793 John, Thank you for your comments. I'm glad to hear that you have enjoyed my discussion on this so far. As for your concerns about the language on hell, I think it is important that we are careful with what definitions we use and how much we load our words with. Similar to my reservations about what we mean when we say "heaven," I also have concern with us talking about "hell." The word translated 'hell' in Revelation 20.13-15 is actually the word 'Hades,' whereas 'hell' itself is the word 'geenna' (see the translation differences in the ESV versus the KJV on this point). The importance of this being that Hades is rightly understood to be the realm of the dead/wicked in this present age, a land of spirits, whereas Hell (Gehenna) is the future <em>physical</em> place of punishment for those who are condemned. Note, this physical portion is what is spoken to in Revelation 20.13 where it says "Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them"; it points towards a resurrection of the unrighteous dead to judgment in physical, eternal Hell (Compare this with Christ's reference in John 5.29 as well). Thus, the phrase "Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire" can either refer to the spiritual places as they existed before that time, or the previous contents of them, which are now the resurrected wicked, but either way there is no contradiction between the statements in question since Hell is synonymous with the lake of fire, not Hades. Therefore, in saying "The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment," I believe that the BF&M is referring to this final judgment where everything wicked is cast into the lake of fire, and not to the spiritual holding place of Hades, and so it would both agree with 2 Thessalonians 1.9 and with the teaching of Revelation 20. Hope this helps clarify where I stand. John,
Thank you for your comments. I’m glad to hear that you have enjoyed my discussion on this so far.

As for your concerns about the language on hell, I think it is important that we are careful with what definitions we use and how much we load our words with. Similar to my reservations about what we mean when we say “heaven,” I also have concern with us talking about “hell.” The word translated ‘hell’ in Revelation 20.13-15 is actually the word ‘Hades,’ whereas ‘hell’ itself is the word ‘geenna’ (see the translation differences in the ESV versus the KJV on this point). The importance of this being that Hades is rightly understood to be the realm of the dead/wicked in this present age, a land of spirits, whereas Hell (Gehenna) is the future physical place of punishment for those who are condemned. Note, this physical portion is what is spoken to in Revelation 20.13 where it says “Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them”; it points towards a resurrection of the unrighteous dead to judgment in physical, eternal Hell (Compare this with Christ’s reference in John 5.29 as well). Thus, the phrase “Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire” can either refer to the spiritual places as they existed before that time, or the previous contents of them, which are now the resurrected wicked, but either way there is no contradiction between the statements in question since Hell is synonymous with the lake of fire, not Hades.

Therefore, in saying “The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment,” I believe that the BF&M is referring to this final judgment where everything wicked is cast into the lake of fire, and not to the spiritual holding place of Hades, and so it would both agree with 2 Thessalonians 1.9 and with the teaching of Revelation 20. Hope this helps clarify where I stand.

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By: John http://toddongod.com/2009/03/25/what-we-believe-article-x-last-things/#comment-791 John Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:55:54 +0000 http://toddongod.com/?p=1330#comment-791 As a non-Southern Baptist who has been attending an SBC church for almost two years now, I've really enjoyed this series. That being said, I do have to disagree with you, and the SBC, on this one. “The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment.” 2 Thessalonians 1.9 “[Those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ] will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.” does not refer to everlasting punishment in Hell. In Revelation 20:14-15 it states: "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. " As I read it, death and hell are tossed into the lake of fire. Then those who are lost are judged and thrown into the lake of fire. Two separate actions. Hell is thrown into the lake and those not in the book of life are cast into the lake. It bothers me that as a group, the SBC seems to ignore the clear words of scripture on this subject. Thank you again for a very thought provoking series that has helped me to better understand the BF&M. As a non-Southern Baptist who has been attending an SBC church for almost two years now, I’ve really enjoyed this series. That being said, I do have to disagree with you, and the SBC, on this one.

“The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment.”

2 Thessalonians 1.9 “[Those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ] will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.” does not refer to everlasting punishment in Hell.

In Revelation 20:14-15 it states: “And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. ”

As I read it, death and hell are tossed into the lake of fire. Then those who are lost are judged and thrown into the lake of fire. Two separate actions. Hell is thrown into the lake and those not in the book of life are cast into the lake.

It bothers me that as a group, the SBC seems to ignore the clear words of scripture on this subject.

Thank you again for a very thought provoking series that has helped me to better understand the BF&M.

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